Hong Kong's budget is truly for the people, unlike..........
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Originally posted by deathbait:
a rebuttal if you will...
1)fuel.The tax has been constant. It has not risen. To decrease the tax is a subsidy.
2)GST. There's never a good time to raise taxes. Do you raise it when growth declines and the budget is in the red? Or do it when times are still relatively ok? Neither is a perfect solution. Trust me, you don't want a GST hike in the next economic crisis. And we both know the time is nigh.
3)inflation. Once again, I must point out that any reduction in existing taxes is considered a subsidy by the government. Do we subsidise rice and wheat too? Because those prices have inflated like crazy too. Where do we draw the line?
4)Minister raise. You miss the point. The raise is not an attempt to keep existing ministers happy. It is offered as an incentive to potential political candidates. Theoretically, you should be doing everything for free because you're just happy to do your part for the community. Like I've said before, that's the utopian dream and not feasible.
If I pay thee not in gold, I pay thee in silver. If we do not possess the incentives other countries have to draw in potential political candidates, we must offer new ones. This is what the pay raise is all about. It's not about shifting blame. Unlike you, the government is looking for solutions, not blame shifting. I don't know what utopian fantasy you've woven around your eyes when looking at how singapore should be. But I assure you, money matters. You would be doing something you hate(perhaps cleaning toilets?) if I offered to pay you a million a year. Trust me.
For 1, 2, and 3, we could go on and on for the rebuttals, but let's keep it at here. They are a never ending discussion.
I just want to point out that money offered as an incentive to potential political candidates is not a valid reason. Why? Do you think that none in the opposition are worthy of office? If not, by supporting the offering of more money as incentive to the political profession already the highest paid in the world, you are indirectly telling us that the opposition do not have the necessary quality candidates, and that only the PAP will have such candidates. Thus when the PAP finds it hard to attract people (to their party), they have to increase the incentive, so much so that the yearly income of one MP is nearly half of that of the US president.
Why do we not possess the incentives other countries have to draw in potential political candidates? Is the fault of the people? I have already pointed this out earlier, and I believe wholeheartedly that such things are not the fault of the people. Yet if they are not the fault of the people, why are they being made to pay for a fault that is not theirs?
Yet again, raising minister pay as incentive shows the incompetence of the PAP to attract people. Is money everything? Apparently yes, to both the PAP and you. For me, I will and do help people not because of money; I do it because I want to. Money matters so much that the only way to reduce road usage by the PAP is to increase ERP. Yet if they think that the roads are congested, why issue so many COEs in the first place? Yes, money matters to them so much that they issue more COEs so that more people own cars, then increase ERP so that you drive less; both ways they earn. Yes, money matters so much that ERP gantries have to be put in residential areas, and a GPS system is under trial ready to do a invisible ERP on you one day.
And again, your analogy of paying a million dollar to do something you hate has a flaw. We are talking about running a country. Suppose you do something you hate, what are the chances of you not giving the best of your ability to do the best out of it, everyday for at least 5 years?
The government is looking for solutions? Probably, but each and every single solution is related to money (again). Not enough population? No worries, pay money to attract foreign workers, give money or incentives for people to give birth. Too many cars? No worries, increase ERP price. People not happy with GST hike? No worries, give out GST package. Not happy with bugdet with 6 billion extra? No worries, give some of the 6 billion back to people. Economy needs to grow more? No worries, build IR irregardless of what the citizens say to get more money. Cannot get people to join them in their party? No worries, increase minister pay to attract people.
So in conclusion, you are right. Money matters, and in Singapore, it matters a lot when you want to control your people. But to be fair, using money as a means to control the population is definitely better than using fear to control (Afghan).
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Originally posted by deathbait:
it is ridiculous that the onus is on me everytime you screw up.
You make a baseless claim and I have to clean up after you to explain why your data is wrong. You make logic errors and I have to write paragraphs to educate you. You prove yourself ignorant, and I'm supposed to educate you.
All while you're being extremely hostile to me.
But I'll do it again, if only so others may learn from your mistakes.
1)"a luxury good is a good for which demand increases more than proportionally as income rises, contrast to a "necessity good" for which demand increases less than proportionally as income rises." A car is a luxury item. End of story. So is TV by the way.
2) I'm not trying to say Mas is not in singapore. I'm saying you're not making sense.
3) For the last time, the government is not at fault for Mas's escape. Know what human error is? Is it your fault if your dog, despite all it's training one day decides to pee in your shoes?
4)SAF was not designed to catch criminals. That's the police's job. Saf's involvement is that of an assistant. To link Mas's escape to the defence budget is so far fetched I'm starting to wonder if your head is screwed on right.
5) Compensation - no one else seems to have found it hard to understand. Why are you struggling? In this context, it's obviously the pay he gets for delivering the goods. You are either making a pathetic attempt at mocking me, or are really THAT dumb. I'm not sure it's not both.
6) You want evidence? Go travel. Get out of that couch and turn off the TV you deem to be a neccessity. You rant on and on about the inaccuracies of the propoganda machine, but refuse to take personal observations over statistics drawn from similar propoganda mediums. You need only open your eyes to see the truth. But hey, then you'll be force to admit your gov is doing a decent job. That's forumite social suicide. We can't have that, can we?
7) learn the difference between making baseless conjectures and the sharing of personal experience. I'm guessing you've never been to these places outside the "tourist areas". Yeah, you don't see the homeless at the Night safari either.
1) Thanks for your "edited" cut and paste to distort the explanation again. Exactly the same source as yours,
"In economics, a luxury good is a good for which demand increases more than proportionally as income rises", contrast with inferior good and normal good. Luxury goods are said to have high income elasticity of demand: as people become more wealthy, they will buy more and more of the luxury good. This also means, however, that should there be a decline in income its demand will drop. It must be noted, though, that income elasticity of demand is not constant with respect to income, and may change sign at different levels of income. That is to say, a luxury good may become a normal good or even an inferior good at different income levels, e.g. a wealthy person stops buying increasing numbers of luxury cars for his automobile collection to start collecting airplanes (at such an income level, the luxury car would become an inferior good).
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Luxury+goods
2) You are not making sense either.
3) You are talking about containment in a maximum security detention centre as compared to a home. I didn't know my house can be classified as a maximum security
detention centre. Maybe next time we can detain Mas Kastari in my house.
4) SAF not trained to search and destroy? WTF? So if a commander tells his man, there is suspected enemy presence in the Bukit Timah Nature Reserve, seek out the enemy and neutralise them. SAF can't do it? Gimme a break.
5) Let's see what you said initially.
In other words, if you have financial trouble paying for parking or ERP charges, you have absolutely no business owning a car in the first place. If you are a delivery vehicle, economic theory dictates that your compensation will eventually adjust to the pre-tax level.
Your explanation for compensation.
Compensation - no one else seems to have found it hard to understand. Why are you struggling? In this context, it's obviously the pay he gets for delivering the goods. You are either making a pathetic attempt at mocking me, or are really THAT dumb. I'm not sure it's not both.
What has ERP and parking got to do with wages of a worker? You haven't been working or you have no knowledge of how the business system works here?
ERP and parking charges are paid by companies, companies don't lump up ERP and parking charges to a worker's salary, because these are business expenses.
You try to sound intelligent by coming up with lingos, but fail at fundamental logic.
6) I am only drawing from figures provided by the Hong Kong budget, which is free from statistical bias and propaganda machinery.
7) Yes, agree that you don't see the poor and homeless in the Singapore Night Safari. You only see the poor and homeless in the housing estates, eye sores free
from the view of visitors to Singapore.
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Originally posted by deathbait:
a rebuttal if you will...
1)fuel.The tax has been constant. It has not risen. To decrease the tax is a subsidy.
2)GST. There's never a good time to raise taxes. Do you raise it when growth declines and the budget is in the red? Or do it when times are still relatively ok? Neither is a perfect solution. Trust me, you don't want a GST hike in the next economic crisis. And we both know the time is nigh.
3)inflation. Once again, I must point out that any reduction in existing taxes is considered a subsidy by the government. Do we subsidise rice and wheat too? Because those prices have inflated like crazy too. Where do we draw the line?
4)Minister raise. You miss the point. The raise is not an attempt to keep existing ministers happy. It is offered as an incentive to potential political candidates. Theoretically, you should be doing everything for free because you're just happy to do your part for the community. Like I've said before, that's the utopian dream and not feasible.
If I pay thee not in gold, I pay thee in silver. If we do not possess the incentives other countries have to draw in potential political candidates, we must offer new ones. This is what the pay raise is all about. It's not about shifting blame. Unlike you, the government is looking for solutions, not blame shifting. I don't know what utopian fantasy you've woven around your eyes when looking at how singapore should be. But I assure you, money matters. You would be doing something you hate(perhaps cleaning toilets?) if I offered to pay you a million a year. Trust me.
1) We must be receiving alot of subsidies from the items that the government don't tax or don't tax excessively.
2) I thought we have our reserves to fall back on during an economic crisis? So now you telling us that the reserves are not use
to sustain us during an economic crisis?
3) The new economic theory by deathbait, if you don't tax or don't tax excessively, it is considered a subsidy.
We should nominate you for the next Nobel Prize in Economics.
No wonder you said everything in Singapore is heavily subsidised.
4) I thought the raise was used to prevent corruption and help the poor Ministers maintain a decent standard of living?
Incentives to potential political candidates? FYI, Ministers are mostly P4P candidates, so what potential political candidates
are you talking about? New potential P4P political candidates?
With all this talk about globalisation, wage equalization, competitiveness, etc. Why are our Ministers not paid according to global wage rates for politicians?
The US President draws a salary of US$400,000, other Heads of State in the World earns maybe slight more or less than that amount.
Why are ALL the P4P Cabinet Ministers and PM paid a salary 6 to 3 times more than what an American President, Australian Prime Minister, Swiss President, New Zealand Prime Minister, UK Prime Minister?
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I have said what needed to be said.
If you are unwilling to put your head down to drink the water from the river I have just led you to, so be it.
Sure, twist my words around to make me sound stupid. What do I care. End of the day, this is simply a forum, and I'm just trying to steer you right. If you refuse, the real loss is only the people who come to the forums and are misguided by your hate.
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Hehehe...
You are the one who came up with this new economic theory,
"if the government don't tax or don't tax excessively, they are considered as giving subsidies".
Seriously, what you are trying to do is cyber propaganda for the P4P regime.
Omission and distortion of facts to promote the regime.
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relativity
go read up on it.
If there is an existing long standing tax, a reduction of it is a subsidy.
duh.
If a car is travelling at 200km/h for 2 hours, pushing the speed down to 190km/h is still slowing down. God it's like i'm talking to a kindergarden kid. I've met children who understood what relativity meant.
Oh please. You distort the truth to spread anti-PAP messages. I simply try to un-distort them. PAP cyber propoganda. Lol. Look at what you're doing.
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Originally posted by deathbait:
relativity
go read up on it.
If there is an existing long standing tax, a reduction of it is a subsidy.
duh.
If a car is travelling at 200km/h for 2 hours, pushing the speed down to 190km/h is still slowing down. God it's like i'm talking to a kindergarden kid. I've met children who understood what relativity meant.
Oh please. You distort the truth to spread anti-PAP messages. I simply try to un-distort them. PAP cyber propoganda. Lol. Look at what you're doing.
I got an idea on how you can apply Einstein theory of relativity.
If your company made losses every year of $1,000, the following year your company made a loss of $500.
You can declare to the shareholders that according to your theory of relativity, your company made a profit of $500.
Maybe you can start explaining Lorentz Transformation and Time Dilation to them.
Hail deathbait!!
You are such a genius!!
I only state facts, unlike you distort facts to serve your P4P agenda.
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Originally posted by deathbait:
relativity
go read up on it.
If there is an existing long standing tax, a reduction of it is a subsidy.
duh.
If a car is travelling at 200km/h for 2 hours, pushing the speed down to 190km/h is still slowing down. God it's like i'm talking to a kindergarden kid. I've met children who understood what relativity meant.
Oh please. You distort the truth to spread anti-PAP messages. I simply try to un-distort them. PAP cyber propoganda. Lol. Look at what you're doing.
Seriously, I am quite amused by your use of Einstein's theory of relativity in everyday issues.
Maybe, if I invoke a lot of pain by stabbing you many times with a dagger,
when I stop stabbing you, you will feel alot of pleasure, because previously
you were feeling so much pain.
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wtf???
I am still laughing my ass off.
You should do a stand up routine at some club.
You will be rich and popular.
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When you are caught speeding on the highways.
If the policeman ask you why you were speeding.
You could tell him, what frame of reference is he talking about,
because relative to the other cars going in the same direction as
you, you were within the speed limit.
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Speaking of money, I wonder how much does the PAP posters get per post? Or they work pro bono?
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Originally posted by Uncle Ver SG:
Speaking of money, I wonder how much does the PAP posters get per post? Or they work pro bono?
Must be quite a tidy sum, considering the kind of hostilities they have to put themselves thru in here. -
cute maurizio.
You're acting like a dumbass for not knowing relativity was a concept way before Einstein.
Also, please let's not insult the theory by pretending you understand it.
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I wish the ministers stop their complaining and take the equivalent highly paid private sector jobs instead.
No one is putting a gun to their heads to continue to work for the government if they feel that the perks are not worth the stress etc. Wong Kan Seng is already headed in that direction.
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Originally posted by deathbait:
cute maurizio.
You're acting like a dumbass for not knowing relativity was a concept way before Einstein.
Also, please let's not insult the theory by pretending you understand it.
Allow me to state this:
Relativity was not a concept way before Einstein. In fact, when Einstein came up with the theory of relativity, no one understood at all. Einstein got his Nobel Prize not because of relativity; it was physics way too advanced for his time. Even till now, the number of people who could really really understand relativity is only a handful. -
I HK friend of mine is saying the hospital in HK is now running at 110% capacity due to the flu outbreak.
Maurizio, how can this happen?
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Originally posted by TCH05:
I HK friend of mine is saying the hospital in HK is now running at 110% capacity due to the flu outbreak.
Maurizio, how can this happen?
Huh?
You are really beyond me.
You take the flu epidemic in Hong Kong to justify your reasoning?
Likewise, Hong Kongers there like "you" will be criticising Singapore's police force, immigrations department and arm forces for it's incompetence.
Maybe when the next dengue epidemic comes, Hong Konger's behaving like you will start criticising Singapore the way you do to Hong Kong.
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
Huh?
You are really beyond me.
You take the flu epidemic in Hong Kong to justify your reasoning?
Likewise, Hong Kongers there like "you" will be criticising Singapore's police force, immigrations department and arm forces for it's incompetence.
Maybe when the next dengue epidemic comes, Hong Konger's behaving like you will start criticising Singapore the way you do to Hong Kong.
I am not justifying or reasoning anything. I am just asking a HK expert like you, how can this happen to HK when,a) HK already learn from their lesson from the SARS outbreak
b) Flu season is not something unexpected, it happens every year isnt it?
c) A country with huge trade surplus and budget for the people
Do you think HKer should be upset about this event? especially when you consider that 4 innocent children have died.
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Well for some reason we don't seem to be learning from our repeated dengue outbreaks with thousands of infections and even multiple deaths despite supposedly having some of the most efficent systems in the world. To the point our hospital systems were taxed.
We are supposed to be better then HK! How can this happen?
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Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
Well for some reason we don't seem to be learning from our repeated dengue outbreaks with thousands of infections and even multiple deaths despite supposedly having some of the most efficent systems in the world. To the point our hospital systems were taxed.
We are supposed to be better then HK! How can this happen?
how do you compare hospital?
Price?
Facilities and equipments?
Quality of doctors and nurses?
Services?
Waiting time and availability?
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Originally posted by TCH05:
I am not justifying or reasoning anything. I am just asking a HK expert like you, how can this happen to HK when,a) HK already learn from their lesson from the SARS outbreak
b) Flu season is not something unexpected, it happens every year isnt it?
c) A country with huge trade surplus and budget for the people
Do you think HKer should be upset about this event? especially when you consider that 4 innocent children have died.
Singapore is the bestest place in the Universe.
Happy???
Delusional.
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Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
Well for some reason we don't seem to be learning from our repeated dengue outbreaks with thousands of infections and even multiple deaths despite supposedly having some of the most efficent systems in the world. To the point our hospital systems were taxed.
We are supposed to be better then HK! How can this happen?
If you look at Hong Kong Public Hospital charges, it's extremely cheap. SG$18 for A&E consultation. I wonder how much does Singapore Hospitals charges forA&E consultation?
"Hong Kong is not used to facing emergencies over childbirth. It has one of the best delivery systems in the world and for decades has offered comprehensive care to mothers.
But Hong Kong's history as British colony and now special administrative region of China means it is much richer, and has a reliable welfare system. Gaining the right of abode in Hong Kong guarantees rights to virtually free healthcare, education and housing. "
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6317127.stm
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Originally posted by TCH05:
I HK friend of mine is saying the hospital in HK is now running at 110% capacity due to the flu outbreak.
Maurizio, how can this happen?
it's cos they have learned then lesson from SARS lah.. so everyone check in hospital for any flu and fever they have now lah... that mean the public education is done well lah... just in case what... u choose lah u rather everyone stay out and spread the virus or all stay in hospital and get it under control??do u know it's so normal to wear face mask if they are sick?? knn.. i always dun wear when i got sick here and my colleagues always scold mi one.... u try it in SG lor.. everyone will think u are really "sick" and siam u till u dun dare to wear it lor..
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
Huh?
You are really beyond me.
You take the flu epidemic in Hong Kong to justify your reasoning?
Likewise, Hong Kongers there like "you" will be criticising Singapore's police force, immigrations department and arm forces for it's incompetence.
Maybe when the next dengue epidemic comes, Hong Konger's behaving like you will start criticising Singapore the way you do to Hong Kong.
I think Marizio13 should put his/her talent into better use by... joining the politics!!! sg needs local real talents and not the put on show ones (the one who say 'now i know the value of diamon...' ).
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
If you look at Hong Kong Public Hospital charges, it's extremely cheap. SG$18 for A&E consultation. I wonder how much does Singapore Hospitals charges forA&E consultation?
Maurizio, what exactly are you trying to say in the above statement? Is HK health system better than Singapore, or just cheaper than Singapore.